Curse

peanut_chew · Nov 13, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Hey, I'm looking for help tweaking my SS build. I've been playing this one for a while and feel like I could have a better skill choice or two. Let me know what you think.

SS
Echo
Reckless Haste
Insidious Parasite
Sig of Lost Souls
Desecrate Enchantments
Shivers

Rez if i'm playing with others
Hexer's Vigor if i'm playing solo

Chthon · Nov 13, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Skills to consider eliminating:

Arcane Echo -- barely worth it now that the cast time could be spent on reckless and dual 20/20 items can speed your recharge. Still useful, but you can find better uses for the skillslot.
Insidious -- this isn't RA; mediocre life steal to a single target isn't superb. It's also an anti-combo with reckless. Bette ruses for this skillslot.
SoLS -- you should have enough SR not to need this
Shivers -- only useful in farm groups or for when you're facing a boss that really needs shut down. Otherwise things die too quickly for it to be worth having.

Things to consider adding:

Mark of Pain -- if you've got wammos/rangers/paragons/dervishes/assassins/minions -- especially minions -- around, this is a huge AoE damage dealer. Often bigger than SS itself.
Barbs -- pretty much the kiss of death for a single target if you've got a few physical damage dealers around.
Awaken the Blood -- Amps up all your curses skills by 2
Enfeebling Blood -- AoE weaken is very effective party defense.
Necrosis -- Spammable high armor-ignoring damage.

Moloch Vein · Nov 13, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with my colleague.

I could go through all the skills, but my biggest pet peeve is the discussion about Arcane Echo. It's been repeated in this forum so many times I feel I should explain this in detail.

Arcane Echo is an excellent spell. A weapon set with dual 20 recharge is. not. a. substitute. for. Arcane. Echo.

A 36% chance to recharge twice as fast isn't the same thing as a 100% chance to cast a spell twice. I bring the Echo, plus the 20/20 mods, in many cases.

Arcane Echo is the spell that truly distinguishes a mediocre damage SS bar from a great damage SS bar.

Consider that Chthon recommends Mark of Pain - a recommendation I completely agree with. Mark of Pain has a 20 seconds recharge. Any build bringing Mark of Pain in PvE should use Arcane Echo.

When people diss Arcane Echo they usually forget that the spell echoed can be anyone. Another example is how it can be used to keep a spell like Pain Inverter up twice as long against a tough boss, or split versus two high damage elementalist foes. In the right situation this spell is the difference between life and death, and the spell that effectively doubles your damage output.

Arcane Echo is precast before the engagement. Thus the argument that the time could be spent doing better things is weak.

Another thing is that I often bring Signet of Lost Souls in a PvE Curses build, precisely to speed up my casting. My chain will almost empty my energy pool. Arcane Echo + Spiteful Spirit + Spiteful Spirit + Reckless Haste = 60 energy. In practice the chain cost is more like 50 energy because there is a pause between the cast of Arcane and the first SS. This is reliant on some targets actually dying. Sometimes they do not die quite quickly enough for me to keep spamming after the chain, but no target dropping below 50% health is pretty unlikely.

Also there are situations where you fight one. big. mean. boss, and then maybe you'll be kill-denied, which makes the Signet able to keep up your casting very nicely.

A PvE SS build is brought so you can hex your foes with Spiteful Spirit. That's the bread and butter of the build. Being able to do so twice as often is not a bad thing.

Keep Arcane Echo. Arcane Echo is your friend.

Longasc · Nov 13, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

If you really want to keep arcane echo, which I do not recommend, remove desecrate enchantment and get enfeebling blood. Pretty much what Chthon said.

E.g.

1. SS
2. Reckless Haste
3. Mark of Pain
4. Enfeebling Blood
5. Ebon Vanguard of Courage (only if no player has SY)
6. Signet of Lost Souls
7. Necrosis
8. Rez, Barbs or Arcane Echo

I am currently experimenting with the Assassin PvE skill that makes you blind and plague sending, maybe someone else has some inspiration how to spread a lot of mean conditions. Signet of Agony causes 25 seconds bleeding, but it does not kill to spread this in PvE either. I thought of Draw Conditions + Plague Sending, but it just does nort work out.

Moloch Vein · Nov 13, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

The only suboptimal skill on the bar in the OP is Desecrate. It should be removed, yes.

Verek · Nov 13, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

If you run with a MM, Barbs is a must - 6 to 10 Feinds, spitting at one target with Barbs +18 per hit (with awaken the blood) makes things go down quick.

Shadowmoon · Nov 13, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Mark of Pain is probably the worse skill to add to that. It triggers Scatter like nothing else, so it is more counter producitive than anything.
You move like a dwarf, best gwen skill in game imo, a instant cast knockdown that can even be used while casting something else. Perfect for interupting rezes, or kiting a warrior off you. Plus the synergy with necrosis is nice as well.

Chthon · Nov 13, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

Mark of Pain is probably the worse skill to add to that. It triggers Scatter like nothing else, so it is more counter producitive than anything.

Used properly, it does so much damage that things are already dead before they have a chance to scatter.

Khasar · Nov 13, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Indeed. AoE doesnt trigger scatter untill after 2-3 seconds anyways so if you all attack the same taget you can easily get off lots of damage before they scatter.

I actually use this when farming sometimes. Simply cast it, attack the target 2-3 times, then switch targets. It does 80-120 AoE damage and doesnt cause scatter. If you want just switch back to your previous tagret after 5 seconds or so and just repeat it.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 15, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Arcane Echo is great with SS though vulnerable during SS' cast time. I've had it removed so many times while in FoW or any place with alot of Mesmer foes.

My SS build is [skill=text]Awaken The Blood[/skill], [skill=text]Arcane Echo[/skill], [skill=text]Spiteful Spirit[/skill], [skill=text]Reckless Haste[/skill], [skill=text]Price of Failure[/skill], [skill=text]Blood Ritual[/skill], [skill=text]Necrosis[/skill], and [skill=text]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/skill]. Its rather vanilla but its certainly effective.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Nov 15, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Used properly, it does so much damage that things are already dead before they have a chance to scatter.

Not only that;
It lasts for a good 30 seconds? Most times monsters that survive and do scatter regroup and come back and it's still active. So if they didn't already die, they're already hurt and die when they come back. The most I've had to do was pull back for a second and let them re aggro.